Practical Planning for Expats Returning to Ireland

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Stephanie Wickham
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of this podcast it’s the use of the word home isn’t it because home makes you think that you know when you think of like your childhood home you walk into it and you’re like oh i’m back i don’t have to kind of work hard to feel comfortable there we use the word home about returning to a country, the country changes.
The people have changed. Things have changed. You’ve changed, like you said. I think that’s a really good thing to be aware of going into it. If you do hit that six, nine month period and go, oh, did we make the right decision?
Just you’re not alone in feeling like that. You know, this too will pass. And obviously everyone’s experience is different. But, you know, do you guys work with people who are kind of in those moments or generally are you talking to people about other things and this

Sarah Owen
comes up in conversation it’s really that it comes up in conversation and and it’s probably the space that we’re situated within people you know people will talk to us about this stuff that maybe they
don’t feel that they can talk to about with their family you know i suppose um if you’re telling a family member who’s been yearning for you to come home that nine months in you’re still not sure if this was the right decision. It’s loaded, right? So I think for us, it comes
up in conversation when we’re linking in with people about other things. It’s always a peripheral thing. No one’s starting out going, I’m really struggling with this, right? And I suppose we’re
very conscious of our limitations as well, right? So I mentioned we’re three people in an office in Dublin and we’ve supported 1500 people in the last year. You know, that’s a lot of work that goes into that. And I suppose
we are funded by the Irish government, but we’ve seen the demand and what we do increase severely, particularly on the crisis piece around, you know, people returning from conflict zones,
repatriations happening, deportations from the States. So we don’t always have, I feel, enough time to spend with people when they are going through that sort of, I suppose, the mental health piece of return. And what I’d love to see is more supports in that sort
of area and a sort of a conversation happening, you know, that so many people do feel this way and it isn’t unique to Ireland. You look at anywhere in the world where people are
returning and there’s that adjustment piece. There is potentially a homesickness for the home that someone’s left, right? You can have multiple homes.

Stephanie Wickham
Okay. And you become, you know, you hit the head, you become, sometimes it’s difficult to talk about, you know, what you left because, you know, you might reminisce about, oh, I remember when we
used to do barbecues on the beach on Friday evening and people are kind of like, well, you chose to come home, you know, you don’t need to repeat how that’s how. So it can be difficult, that middle bit where, you know, you had a happy or an established life.
Maybe things change. You decided to come back and it can be a lonely place sometimes. So it’s nice to know then obviously you’re not the only one. It’s normal, normal to feel like that.
And you know, whether you’re emigrating for the first time or returning, and these are things just to be aware of, knowing it in advance is helpful.

Sarah Owen
Absolutely. And I mean, there are things like there’s a, there’s a small returned, uh, immigrant network that is, um, run by our partners, Safe Home Ireland that meets virtually. And I think there’s, you know, there’s people who join that there’s, there’s other spaces
like the Irish expats returning to Ireland where people, you know, do share their experiences and so on. But I think just more broadly, those conversations when they’re happening, they’re
happening with people that, that are also going through that experience and that’s really good but I think there needs to be a bit of an awareness as well within our own families and across Ireland that it isn’t just, as I said, return migration isn’t just reverse emigration,

Stephanie Wickham
there’s so much more that comes with that. What kind of planning do you see as being helpful for somebody who is in the planning phase of coming back, what do you like to see people do before they return?

Sarah Owen
Obviously the first thing is, is this the right decision that the person’s making for themselves? What are the push factors, the pull factors? Very often we speak to people and we’re like,
why do you want to come home? And they’re like, I wanna be closer to family. And I was like, okay, so starting with that, let’s look at all the peripheral stuff
that you might need to make that happen. So what are you thinking in terms of work? What are you thinking in terms of your children and going to school? Which area are you going to situate yourself? So I suppose people asking themselves questions rather
than from the starting point, well, I’m just moving back. Like, okay, well, let’s explore that. What does that actually look like for you? Right? Exactly. And then just on the very practical
side of things, I mean, it’s really important that people gather as much documentation about their lives abroad so that when they’re moving that, they’re able to have all that to hand. So I mean, things like when they’re opening bank accounts or indeed they want to register with a
doctor, they’re able to transfer medical records. These sound like really simple things, but you’d be amazed at the amount of people who are like, oh yeah, I’ll just sort that out when I get to Ireland. And it can take so much longer, for instance instance to try and get information when you’re in Ireland
rather than when you’re on the spot and you’re gathering all of that you know even down to things like birth certificates for children you know marriage certificates all that stuff it always amazes me that that a lot of the time people are like oh yeah well I’ll just sort that stuff out
you know well you kind of need it for the beginning you kind of need that foundation for everything that you’re you want to do when you’re when you’re back in Ireland. I suppose the other piece is as well is looking
at accommodation. That’s got to be top of the list. Very practically speaking, it’s a macro issue. It’s affecting the whole of Irish society, but it is going to affect you more
as a returning Irish immigrant for all the reasons we mentioned. You might not have the same networks, you might be looking to live in an area that now has suddenly gone really expensive. So doing a lot of research, gathering a lot of documentation and really just asking hard questions to yourself before making that move, it will really stand you
in good stead when you’re back in Ireland because you’ve explored some of the harder things before moving back. And look, there is, I suppose, a privilege to being able to go through that process in a way. For a lot of people it’s not the case, you know, some people
don’t have any choice but to come back and organizations like ourselves exist to support them to try and you know link into to support systems in the state. You know it can be it can
be quite challenging on return for someone who say as I said has had their their life upended by war or conflict or has received a deportation order after living somewhere for a very long period of time and and they don’t have the
luxury i suppose of doing all that planning so for people who can do it it’s really important too

Stephanie Wickham
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Check the show notes or head to currenciesdirect.com to register. And thanks to Currencies Direct for the support of this podcast. What supports do you think exist that people just are not aware of,
that you wish people knew more about?

Sarah Owen
Yeah, so I think not just on the return side of things, but I think certainly a lot of the newer generation might not necessarily be linking in with the network of Irish groups
and supports that exist. And that’s for a number of reasons, you know, you don’t necessarily want to go abroad and spend your time in Irish spaces, absolutely fair enough. But at the same time, what we find is that plugging into Irish networks abroad means that a person kind of has an in, if you like.
They have like a base, a launch pad, if you will. So whether that’s business networks, and they exist all over the world, you’d be amazed. I was in Serbia, and there’s an Irish-Serbian Chamber of Commerce doing great work out in Belgrade, you know.
Or whether it’s you have children and you want them to retain the Irish language or you want them to still be connected with Irish culture. You know, there’s so many things like pop-up girl talks and, um, you know, dancing and
music that, that, that exists even in places like Belgium. I mean, I think that in Belgium, for instance, there’s a real, um, there’s a real community that are Irish speakers, you know, you wouldn’t just assume that that, that is the case, but, but it is. Um, and so I think for,
for new generations of immigrants, finding those spaces and using them to connect, you know, it’s quite helpful. And also then there’s supports that come through that, right?
So we’ve seen when tragedies have happened, you know, GAA clubs, for instance, doing fundraisers for someone who’s had an accident, a farming accident in Australia, you know, the supports are not necessarily formal,
but the fact is Irish people are everywhere all over the world and have found places to connect with one another. And I think that that can come as a surprise to people. And maybe it’s also, it’s not something they look for until they need it.
Right. Um, which is absolutely fair, but the fact that, that Ireland is in, is, is unique in, in, in the fact that it has this immigrant support program fund. This fund dedicated to setting up places for connection for Irish people abroad.
When it comes to diaspora engagement, it’s almost diaspora engagement has sort of become a buzzword and we’re seeing it all over now. I mean, you have like, um, countries in the Balkans engaging with their
diaspora and, and indeed their, their returning diaspora, and there’s a lot of really meaningful connections happening there, but the fact that Ireland is actually funding support organizations like ourselves to do work in the non-profit space is highly
unique. And I think often people don’t know enough about that.

Stephanie Wickham
And I think, you know, even people listening to this, some people may not even know about the project that you run and just listen to your talk, you know, so important.
You know, sometimes it’s about kind of, it’s about helping people in time of need and that need will look different. It could be a crisis or it could just be a need for access to information from a trusted source.
Yeah, because as much as we can find out so much online, sometimes we get so much information being able to. There’s always something reassuring about a government backed source, isn’t there?
To kind of having some place to go.

Sarah Owen
I think so. And I suppose we sit in the in between, right? Non-governmental organisation. It’s in the in-between right non-governmental organization it’s in the name like we can we can you know have conversations with people and meet
them where they’re at in in a way that maybe a State Department might not be able to write but I would I would say that you know I think it’s really important that people have these conversations with others who are going
through the same experience once they take what the person’s the other person’s experiences with a big pinch of salt, right? Because everyone’s experience
is unique and you may not know the intricacies or the unique points that a person has been through or their particular circumstances. It’s not really a one size fits all when it comes to this.
And sometimes I worry a little bit, particularly in the online space, as you say, there’s so much information, but there’s so much presented as, well, this is the way it is when in fact it may not be for you, right?

Stephanie Wickham
100%. And I think an observation I would have, and it’s purely my opinion, is that the people sometimes who haven’t had a good experience will tend to hang out there and talk about it, but the reality is that the people, the other 99% of people
who it’s probably gone very well for haven’t taken the time to check in to talk about how positive their experience was. Now I’m being facetious but the point I’m making is you know it’s generally somebody who’s discontent
who’ll take the time to talk about it because that’s life isn’t it you move on. That’s life

Sarah Owen
yeah I think I think you could say that about about anything you know exactly a bad experience I mean we’ll all go and talk about the bad experience we have I mean, even in a work context, there’s all the amazing things you
might be doing in work, but the thing that you’re vocalizing is the thing that you’re

Stephanie Wickham
frustrated about the most, right? Exactly. But when you’re searching for information in specific form, being mindful of that can kind of, because it can sometimes be a bit depressing if somebody
asks a question and then there’s just negative responses when they may not be representative of what the majority of people experienced. That’s basically the point I’m trying to make.

Sarah Owen
Exactly, exactly. And I think that does happen. And I think that particularly in forums, yeah, it does gravitate towards a negative. That’s not to say that, you know, the fact that someone has had a difficult or bad experience
is false. Absolutely not. But it isn’t. But as you say, it isn’t necessarily what the person who’s looking for the information needs at that time. Right. the person who’s looking for the information needs at that time. Right.

Stephanie Wickham
So I think having access to a variety of different sources and different lived experiences is invaluable. And that’s where the type of work that you guys do really comes to fruition.
What, if somebody is listening today to this episode and they’re quietly thinking of coming back, what would be the biggest piece of advice that you’d give them at this point in time?

Sarah Owen
So I think starting with the information piece, there are places that people can go to get that impartial information to help them make a decision. So I mentioned it already, but the citizensinformation.ie returning to Ireland portal is a great starting point.
And then our own website, diasporasupport.ie as well for things that are perhaps a little more targeted.if someone thinks that they might need to to access say a social welfare payment on return while they’re looking for work those i would say
are are the starting points for gathering information um then really as i said looking looking at at what they want their life in ireland to look like and looking at whether things are
realistic or not right sometimes we say to people if they have it in their power to trial a period, right? So to come back for, say, an extended period of time, one or two months, and to start doing some of the groundwork here before they move over wholesale,
particularly if you’re moving an entire family over to somewhere you haven’t lived for the last 18 years. If you have that ability, that’s a really good idea. And then, listen, I suppose the other thing is just in terms of employments,
we’ve come a long way from having to fly over to Ireland for interviews and things like that. So much can be done remotely and virtually. And there are, you know, there’s particular sectors that are actively
recruiting for Irish people in the diaspora, you know? So I suppose looking at your own networks, your own connection points abroad and seeing, you know, how can you transit from that to come into
Ireland for work purposes. And then I suppose there’s going to be things that people need specialized information around. So like I mentioned, if you’re coming back with a non-Irish partner or a non-Irish spouse, what does that look like for you?
It might be that you want to return in two months’ time, but you’re going to have to wait for two years for a visa for your loved one. And that’s going to change the face of your planning, if you will. So we’re always happy to hear from people.
And we do get a lot of people who email us through our website diasporasupport.ie going, I really don’t know where to start and what we start with is asking them questions about their circumstances and then we can signpost them on. And in some cases that’ll be it, that’ll be the
interaction that we have with them but they’re going off with something that’s a little bit more

Stephanie Wickham
focused around how to start the process of planning a return. Such a fantastic resource because sometimes that’s what you want, isn’t it? You know, in the kind of the age we live in of AI and information everywhere,
you sometimes just want a human to kind of point you in, where should I go? And is that kind of answering perhaps my next question, Sarah, you know, how do people interact with you?
Where do they find CrossCare predominantly? And if they want to learn more, where would you like them to go first? Yeah.

Sarah Owen
So, um, conscious that a lot of the listeners are probably abroad. So diasporasupport.ie is our website. There’s plenty of information on there. There’s also a contact us or get help form that people can fill in where we ask some
questions around their circumstances. And then we respond to them usually by email. We are based in Dublin, um, and we operate an appointment system. So say for instance, for someone who is moving back and is going to need to have
some assistance from us when it comes to engaging with services or filling in forms or things like that we we have a team here and we make an appointment and they come into our offices in dublin we can also facilitate things like like zoom calls you
know whilst a person is abroad i suppose what we try and do is tailor tailor our approach to to a person’s need and it might be that we go you know what we can only help you this far, you need to go to X, Y, and Z source, right?
So we signpost as well. And I will just say that, you know, in times where we’re dealing with a lot of crisis cases, it can sometimes take us a little while to get back to people. And a lot of what we do is really managing people’s expectations, not just
about like how we can engage with them, but you know, what they’re going to have to do themselves when they get back. And, uh, hopefully that can act, as I said, as a little sort of springboard for them to know where to start.

Stephanie Wickham
Nice welcome, isn’t it? When we start the conversation about coming home, what it’s like, it’s a nice welcome back because, you know, you can kind of land in Dublin Airport and collect your bag.
I remember us doing it, you know, with two kids and loads of bags and you do mentally feel like you have a mountain to climb. You know, you don’t have PPS numbers, you don’t have doctors,
you don’t have childcare, you don’t have a home. It’s daunting, you know, and a lot of us are really lucky that we have family to kind of guide us and support us and give us lodging and all
these different things that we need. But it’s lovely to hear that there is other support groups there as well, depending on people’s circumstances. I really hope people listening to this take the chance to check
the website out and go so far as to reach out. I’m not sure you’ll thank us given how busy you are already, but I can sense that you guys are available and very keen to help
people. So it’s really lovely. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain to us the fantastic work that you do.

Sarah Owen
Oh, it’s an absolute pleasure. And it’s great to have the opportunity to do that because I suppose we’re we’d say ourselves you know there’s only so much we can do when it comes to building profile and there’s only so much capacity as well that we have right so you know if if this if one listener
comes away from this going you know what I think I know where to start or I know how to progress my idea of moving back then that that’s a success good start to the day. Thank you so much, Sarah. Really appreciate your time. Thank you so much, Steph.

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