Returning to Ireland: What Irish Expats Need To Know

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Welcome to Taxbytes for Expats, the top tax tips you want to know as an expat. The podcast is here to help answer the common queries and concerns expats have when moving to or from Ireland. Complex taxes explained simply. We’ll focus on the Irish and

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Stephanie Wickham

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this podcast. Hi everybody. Welcome to this episode of Taxbytes for Expats. Today we are joined by Sarah Owen, who is a project leader with CrossCare Irish Diaspora Support Project,

which is a Dublin-based non- nonprofit funded by the government of Ireland. The aim is for them to provide information and advocacy assistance to Irish citizens moving abroad and those who are also returning to Ireland,

all with a particular focus on supporting people who are marginalised and in crisis situations upon return. Sarah herself is a dual Irish and French citizen and she has lived experience of emigration.

She has worked in the areas of Irish diaspora support and engagement for almost 15 years and she’s passionate about supporting people to make informed migration decisions.

So I think it’s great to have you on the podcast, Sarah, welcome.

Sarah Owen

Thank you so much, Steph, it’s a pleasure to be here.

Stephanie Wickham

Great to be able to talk to you and great to be able to talk to somebody as well who’s involved in such important work which I think many of our listeners will be really interested to hear what you have to say about your experiences and the services that are available.

But we’ll go through all that in time, maybe just kind of to kick off. Could you tell us a little bit about your own background and what led you to this role of kind of working with the Irish diaspora?

Sarah Owen

Yeah, of course. I mean, the beautiful introduction that you gave me, you touched on it a little bit. I am a child of multiple diasporas. I grew up in Kenya in East Africa to an English father and a French mother.

And I lived out there till my early teens. And I moved to Britain and I lived in England for four years. And then I decided, you know what, let’s go to Ireland. And that was supposed to be for six months. And here I am more than 22 years later.

I have a little boy who’s Irish. Ireland is home now, you know. So I suppose just as part of my own journey and the fact that, you know, I suppose I would say I’m quite a privileged migrant, you know, I was able to come to Ireland, get a job, integrate here.

And I always lean towards the nonprofit sector. And I suppose my idea had been to go back to Kenya eventually and to work in sort of development fields. But in 2012, I started an internship with Crosscare and it was supporting political participation

of migrants in Ireland. And I just sort of fell in love with the work. And then when an opportunity came to work with the diaspora part of the project, I jumped at it.

And so I’ve done a number of roles in the project. I’ve done frontline work, I’ve done policy work, I’ve done a lot of outreach and now I’m managing the project. And I would say, look, there’s a lot of trends that have changed over the years

but ultimately the heart of what we do is still the the direct support for people and i think at a time where we’re all sort of communicating through screens and you know the increase of ai and so on it’s still really important to have that personal touch that human connection

and it’s it’s really important in what we do and i think that’s that’s what keeps me passionate about the work you know the fact that i can see the impact that we have. And I work with a fantastic team as well, so that helps.

Stephanie Wickham

And that actually leads me quite nicely to my next question, which is, what does the support project do? And who are the people who are typically reaching out for support?

Sarah Owen

Yeah, no, you gave us again a great introduction around that. But so ultimately we’re funded by the Irish government to provide support to people who are both leaving the country by way of information,

mainly online nowadays. You know, someone moving to Australia might be looking to connect in with a group in Australia. We have contact details on our website for support organisations abroad, but also, you know, for a first-time

immigrant trying to demystify some of the immigration process. So, you know, you’re going on a working holiday, what does that look like? Where can you go to? And then on, I suppose, the flip side, the rest of the work is really around providing support

to people who are returning. And they might be returning in a planned way. So you might have someone in New York who wants to know about how to get an Irish passport or PPS number for their child born over there because they’re moving back home, they’re moving to

Mayo or something. Or indeed, you might have someone who is being deported from somewhere in Southeast Asia and is going to be coming back homeless and is going to need to engage with statutory services.

So it’s really quite a broad range, I suppose, the work that we do. But there’s sort of three main areas. So the Irish diaspora support, which I’ve given you a few examples there, is at the heart of everything. And then on top of that, we do policy and research work.

So identifying trends as they arise on the front line and engaging with policymakers and trying to remove administrative barriers, particularly for people who are returning in difficult circumstances.

Trying to make things easier for people rather than to make them jump through more hoops is something that we really, you know, we feel is really important, particularly at a time where, you know, there are a lot of people emigrating, but there’s still quite

a lot of people moving back to Ireland. And yeah, and then the other thing that we do is outreach. So I mentioned there Irish organizations around the world, but the Emigrant Support Program, which funds us, is a fund that was established back in the early 2000s and has funded

over 900 organizations around the world to provide some kind of supports or services to Irish citizens abroad and we’d be networked in with those groups. So as an example it might be an Irish dancing

group in Sydney, it might be a language group in Belgium or indeed it might be an Irish welfare organization providing lots of support to say older Irish immigrants in London. There’s a real spread of the type of organization that exists and you know

we’re very fortunate I suppose to be part of of that network. I suppose we’re also part of a much larger organization so we’re a small project based in Dublin with three people but as the organization

Crosscare itself has about 500 staff and works across social services across the greater Dublin region. So it’s things like food services and cafes providing healthy meals for a small amount. It’s youth clubs all around Dublin. It’s homeless

services with accommodation. It’s counselling services, gambling support services. So we’re really well situated, I suppose, in terms of our overseas networks, but indeed the larger

organisation which we’re part of. And the ethos of the organization is really around helping those who need the most support and I think that’s that’s that’s very much what we do to give you an idea so last year we would have worked with over

1,500 people and that’s Irish citizens and their family members who are either emigrating or returning as I said it’s mainly return the way we’re seeing the sort of crisis cases but at the same time it’s both for people emigrating and people returning that we focus on.

Stephanie Wickham

And what kind of changes or patterns have you seen in the last few years in terms of people returning to Ireland and people leaving? Because you’ve mentioned, obviously, you guys are at the

Sarah Owen

front line of kind of monitoring those movements. Yeah, I suppose the last 10 years have, I mean, I think it’s fair to say the last 10 years have been a bit bonkers just in society in general, right? And there’s been so much change. I mean, we had the pandemic,

we’ve had things like Brexit, we’ve had the change of administration in the US, we’ve had the rise and unfortunate rise of conflict around the world. And I think we’re all sort of navigating those changes, right? So why should immigration and migration be any different? At the start of

the pandemic, we would have seen a real spike in people returning to Ireland. And those would have been people who say were on a temporary immigration permission abroad or had lost their job abroad or indeed were

coming back to be closer to family members at a time that it felt like the world was sort of ending and then post pandemic we saw an increase then and we still seeing an increase in in particularly younger people emigrating

you know there’s obviously push factors I mean things like the housing crisis cost of living can’t be underestimated as push factors. But there’s also, I suppose, the fact that that generation hadn’t been able to go and have the adventure, see the

world do what the Irish do best in terms of traveling and emigrating and connecting with people outside of Ireland. So there’s been a real spike, I suppose, in people particularly

going to Australia, but also places like Canada. The other thing I suppose we’ve seen is movement to places where English isn’t the first language. There’s still obviously movement to traditional destinations like

the UK, our closest neighbor, but it is harder to get into some of the traditional destinations like the USA, for instance. So we’ve seen a move to places like the UAE and obviously

there’s been a large Irish population out in the Gulf states who are now potentially looking at moving back to Ireland because of what’s happening out there. So it’s hard to sort of look at 10

years because so much has happened, you know.

Stephanie Wickham

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currenciesdirect.com to register. And thanks to Currencies Direct for the support of this podcast. And yet the funny thing is, is that irrespective of those changes, the lived experience of somebody

who comes back probably hasn’t changed very much because returning home is difficult, it’s challenging. And I suppose, do you see sometimes that maybe there’s an assumption that when

somebody comes back to Ireland, well, it’s obviously going to feel familiar and it’ll all be easy. Is that always the case? What do you see practically when people navigate this?

Sarah Owen

I think this is an area that there has been a little bit of change in terms of how people perceive things in Ireland. I think it’s, it’s now fairly understood that there are going to be some challenges that people face.

But I think the thing is that sometimes people aren’t really aware of exactly what might be the pinch points when they’re coming back. So there’s definitely more awareness than there would have been say five, even 10 years ago around return migration, not just being a reverse of emigration.

Right. It’s so much more than that. And the idea of it being re-emigration, you know, that you’ve changed when you come back to the country, the country’s changed. Coming back to Ireland for Christmas and spending time with all your loved ones and

family and friends and everyone dropping everything for you is totally not what it’s like if you’re moving back permanently. In fact, sometimes people comment that they see their friends and loved ones less now that they live in Ireland than when they were abroad, you know. So I think there’s more

awareness that there are challenges there, but I think things still come as a surprise for people and and that can really depend on where they’ve been how long they’ve been away you know and how connected they’ve stayed to Ireland as

well I mean it would be unusual for us to encounter people who weren’t aware of the housing crisis for instance right most people would know about that but they might think of them making a planned return it might not necessarily

impact them so you know if they’re coming back and they want to buy property or, you know, they’re in a fortunate place where they can do so, even then, I think people are a bit surprised at the fact that it can take longer than they anticipated, right? And I mean, do you,

Stephanie Wickham

what kind of support do you guys provide there? Is it information service? Absolutely, yeah. So,

Sarah Owen

we’re part of a, I suppose, an ecosystem of organisations in Ireland who provide information on the return side of things. So, in recent years, citizensinformation.ie have a new section on their website that’s called the Returning to Ireland portal.

And there’s really detailed information there around, you know, helping someone plan their return. There’s also our partners over in Mayo, Safe Home Ireland, who do very similar work to ourselves. And I suppose we’re all singing off the same hymn sheet, if you like.

You know, it’s really the starting point is information. We don’t take the approach, certainly in Crosscare anyway, of promoting or dissuading immigration or return what we’re trying to do is to help people make an informed decision um for themselves right and so

when you have someone making that planned return sometimes people will turn around and go you know what actually this isn’t my time i’m not going to come back now and that’s perfectly fine because a person has to do what’s what’s the right thing for them you know and then on the on the the hands-on side of things in terms of meeting people, advocating on their behalf, that’s really

people who are coming back who need some kind of support from the state usually. So they might be coming back into homelessness, they might be fleeing domestic violence, they might have left a conflict zone and are looking for work on their return and need to connect in with social welfare

support. So you know we’d help people fill in their application forms, we would advocate on their behalf if they’re coming up against issues. So something that people are often surprised about is just because you’re an Irish citizen doesn’t mean you have an automatic

entitlement to access statutory supports. There are I suppose criteria that you have to satisfy. So for things like accessing housing supports, you usually have to be on the housing list or you have

to have a local connection to the area and if someone’s been gone for a very long period of time that’s where we come in. You know we’re advocating for the fact that you know they’re they’ve been gone but they’re originally from x place they this is their their their lived experience of being there and the same

thing with social welfare uh it’s not automatic so if you haven’t lived in the country um for at least um two years you can’t rely on your social insurance contributions so more than likely you’re applying for an assistance-based payment and for for that, you have to satisfy a means test,

which, you know, if you’ve got someone coming back from a conflict zone and they’re being asked to provide six months’ worth of bank statements, I mean, you can imagine how that goes, right? And then they also have to show that they’re habitually resident in Ireland.

And that can be really difficult for certain groups of people. So for instance, let’s say that you’re living in the States and you’re coming home to care for your elderly father who’s taken a fall. And it’s all happened really quickly and suddenly you’re in Ireland and you’re caring for your parent. It might actually

be quite difficult to access something like Carers Allowance because you’ve maintained a centre of interest in the States because you’re here potentially for a short period of time. So that can leave someone in sort of a difficult

position they might not have access to support and so we we try and advocate on behalf of people and and for the most part we’re successful but there are some cases that are more difficult than others. I feel like I’ve spoken quite a lot there, so I’ll let you ask the next question.

Stephanie Wickham

It’s all very useful because these are the things that sometimes, you know, you don’t read about them on the information websites, it’s experience of working with people. Why are the challenges beyond housing that you see people grapple with when

Other speaker

they come back, beyond the things you’ve just mentioned?

Sarah Owen

So there’s a lot of administrative red tape that people find difficult to grapple with. So, I mean, even when it comes to say registering with a GP, it might be difficult to register with a GP in the

area because they’re all oversubscribed or they might not be familiar with the process of registering a child in school and how that might work. And again, a lot of schools are operating waiting lists, for instance. So there isn’t that sort of, yes, that’s it,

you’ve applied to the school, right now you’re getting in. Um, the same thing with, you know, uh, supports for people who are say returning with a loved one who has a disability or needs some kind of care,

you know, trying to, to look at, um, uh, I suppose what exists for them. It can be hard to sort of find that information out and, and, and navigate, uh, depending on a person’s circumstances, all of that whilst also returning.

It’s, it’s quite a lot, you know, And I think no matter if someone is making a planned return or is returning in more difficult circumstances, there’s always that sort of reverse culture shock, right?

You know, and that comes really unexpected for people. They know it’s gonna be different to immigration, but I think it surprises them that now it feels like

the life that they’ve had elsewhere, they almost don’t have permission to talk about it. You know, we often hear people going, I feel more American than I do Irish when I’m back in Ireland, but when I’m in America, I feel more Irish than I do American.

So it’s that piece that comes with migration, a sense of belonging. And one of the things that we try and encourage people to do is to sort of get to know Ireland again.

If in their power, go around and see the country, get excited by what’s happening. Having to rebuild social networks and professional networks can come as a surprise to people and it can be harder because I suppose,

you know, take the example of someone who left Ireland at 22 and went to Australia on a working holiday, and they’re now coming back at 35 with two children in tow and an Australian partner. That’s a very, very different, I suppose, social network that you’re going to build there, right?

You’re also very different as a person and the things that you’re connecting in with in terms of the state, but in terms of society in general, you’re at a completely different level to when you left, you know?

So I think, yeah, it can take time for people to adjust to life back in Ireland. And even once they’re through the red tape piece and the dust is settled and they’re living

somewhere and they’ve got employment, there’s still that piece of of identity and belonging that that takes a little bit longer for people to to to adjust to.

Stephanie Wickham

I often read on some of the forums, you know, people saying things like we’ve been back six months or we’ve been back nine months and we just can’t settle. And, you know, just even from our own

experience, I recall not feeling settled at that point. And that was obviously just my experience. But would you observe that, that it can take people longer than they think to feel like, oh, this was the right decision?

Sarah Owen

Absolutely. I mean, I think, listen, the first year is all about that, you know, sometimes longer for people. I’ve met people who two years down the line are going, it’s only now that I’m starting to feel at home again. And part of that is all the things I mentioned, but part of that is also

the yearning for the life that had been, you know. We all tend to look at things through rose-tinted spectacles. So when you’re abroad, Ireland, you’re looking at it in this sort of romanticized way.

But when you’re back in Ireland, maybe you’re looking at your old life and going, actually, there was things about my old life that I really miss. So there’s a grief within that as well that I think doesn’t really get named. But absolutely, I have never met anyone who’s

been back and after a month is like, right, I’m here. And if they’re saying that’s the case, then I’m expecting the few months time where it’s like, oh, oh yeah, I didn’t think that I was

needing to adjust, but there are things I need to look at.

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